LOTH
Puerility? Ah well, in some ways no doubt it was. We certainly underestimated the difficulty of such an undertaking.
HOFFMANN
And that you really did go to America, in all seriousness, and with empty hands ... Why, think, man, what it means to acquire land and foundation for a model state with empty hands. That was almost cr ... At all events it was unique in its navete.
LOTH
And yet I'm particularly satisfied with the result of my American trip.
HOFFMANN
[_Laughing with a touch of boisterousness._] Cold water treatment. That was an excellent result, if that's what you mean....
LOTH
It may well be that I cooled down quite a little. But that process is hardly peculiar to myself. It is one which every human being undergoes.
But it's a far cry from that to failing to realise the value of those ...
well, let's call them, our hotheaded days. And it wasn't so frightfully simple-minded, as you represent it.
HOFFMANN
Well, I don't know about that.
LOTH
All you have to do is to think of the average silliness that surrounded us in those days: the fraternity goings on at the universities, the swilling, the duelling. And what was all the noise about? It was about Hecuba, as Fips used to say. Well, we at least, didn't make a fuss about Hecuba; we had our attention, fixed on the highest aims of humanity. And, in addition to that, those silly times cleared me thoroughly of all prejudices. I took my leave of sham religion and sham morality and a good deal else....
HOFFMANN
I'm perfectly prepared to admit that much. If, when all's said and done, I am an open-minded, enlightened man to-day, I owe it, as I wouldn't dream of denying, to the days of our intercourse! I am the last man to deny that. In fact I'm not in _any_ respect a monster. Only you mustn't try to run your head through a stone wall.--You mustn't try to force out the evils under which, more's the pity, the present generation suffers, only to replace them by worse ones. What you've got to do is--to let things take their natural course. What is to be, will be! You've got to proceed practically, practically! And you will recall that I emphasised that just as much in those days as now. And that principle has paid. And that's just it. All of you, yourself included, proceed in a most unpractical way.
LOTH
I wish you'd explain just how you mean that.
HOFFMANN
It's as simple as ... You don't make use of your capabilities. Take yourself, for instance: a fellow with your knowledge, energy and what not! What road would have been closed to you? Instead of going ahead, what is it you do? You _compromise_ yourself, at the very start, to _such_ a degree, that ... well, honestly, old man, didn't you regret it once in a while?
LOTH
I can't very well regret the fact that I was condemned innocently.
HOFFMANN
As to that, of course, I can't judge.
LOTH
You will be able to do so at once when I tell you that the indictment declared that I had called our club, "Vancouver Island," into being purely for purposes of party agitation. In addition I was said to have collected funds for party purposes. Now you know very well that we were thoroughly in earnest in regard to our ambitions of founding a colony.
And, as far as collecting money goes--you have said yourself that we were all empty-handed together. The indictment was a misrepresentation from beginning to end, and, as a former member, you ought to....
HOFFMANN
Hold on, now. I wasn't really a member. As to the rest, of course, I believe you. Judges are, after all, only human. You must consider that.
In any event, to proceed quite practically, you should have avoided the very _appearance_ of that sort of thing. Take it all in all: I have wondered at you often enough since then--editor of the _Workingmen's Tribune_, the obscurest of hole and corner sheets--parliamentary candidate of the dear mob! And what did you get out of it all? Don't misunderstand me! I am the last man to be lacking in sympathy with the common people. But _if_ something is to be effected, it must be effected from above. In fact that's the only way in which anything can be done.
The people never know what they really need. It's this trying to lift things from beneath that I call--running your head through a stone wall.
LOTH
I'm afraid I don't get a very clear notion of your drift.
HOFFMANN
What I mean? Well now, look at me! My hands are free: I am in a position to do something for an ideal end.--I think I can say that the practical part of my programme has been pretty well carried out. And all you fellows, always with empty hands--what can you do?
LOTH
True. From what one hears you are in a fair way to become a Rothschild.
HOFFMANN
[_Flattered._] You do me too much honour--at least, for the present. Who said that, anyhow? A man sticks to a good thing, and that, naturally, brings its reward. But who was it said that?
LOTH
It was over there in Jauer. Two gentlemen were conversing at the next table.
HOFFMANN
Aha! H-m. I have enemies. And what did they have to say?
LOTH
Nothing of importance. But I heard from them that you had retired for the present to the estate of your parents-in-law.
HOFFMANN
People have a way of finding things out; haven't they? My dear friend, you'd never believe how a man in my position is spied on at every step.
That's another one of the evils of wealth ... But it is this way, you see: I'm expecting the confinement of my wife in the quiet and the healthy air here.
LOTH
What do you do for a physician? Surely in such cases a good physician is of the highest importance. And here, in this village....
HOFFMANN