I recall thinking something along the same lines regarding Sunako, her spiritual search as a vehicle of her being drawn to Seishin, as well as his complete turnaround by the end by being the one to drag her away from a self-destructive situation because he didn't want to be alone. I thought that was interesting to see, and yet I have some sympathy for Seishin too (even if I also find Toshio fascinating because he's so proactive, but that's another post), privately wanting freedom from a village he perceived as stifling, yet unsure if it was the right thing to break away because, as I saw it, he still did care about the individual people, just not what they represented. I can imagine that by the end of things, he was weary; watching his best friend become what he saw as a monster, even while he befriended another person who could also be seen as one. Then he goes to the shiki with intentions of probably dying, only to figure out that nope, he's a jinrou now, and as he puts it to Sunako in the manga (paraphrased, if I'm remembering and interpreting correctly), "We are outside of God's jurisdiction and outside of sin; all that is left for us is despair." That was also part of why I found his interpretation of God in one of the chapters interesting too; it felt to me like he had an ideal of what God is supposed to be, but like all ideals, things sometimes don't work that way, hence his questioning what God was and what God meant to him personally--my memory's a bit fuzzy there, though.
I somehow get the feeling Sunako won't be getting all that she bargained for in getting Seishin as a companion, someone who has his ideals and if they're not what he thinks they should be,it's not worth holding onto. Maybe sometime in the future he becomes somewhat more like Tatsumi in that he knows Sunako is ultimately doomed to failure, but tags along because it's interesting and at least he's not alone. Anyway, sorry for all of my ramble.I haven't found anyone else to discuss the series with, so it's good to have a group here. Thread Reply to this Thread from start Parent Thread Hide 11 comments Show 11 comments no subject sinnesspiel 2015-01-22 02:01 am (UTC)(link) I think you'll really like some of the more elaborate discussions Seishin and Sunako have had and will have in the novel. Still, the manga and the anime both captured the end distinctly, so that they cut much of the more explicit talk (though a lot of it's still in the episode previews where it's just Seishin monologuing) I generally think they captured the feel well.
One thing that's interesting to me is Seishin's concept of God/religion; it's a creed or a code more than, say, a deity or a certain consciousness or entity. It's like the 10 Commandments rather than the God who passed them down, in Judeo-Christian terms. By Seishin, I imagine certain alignments (political, etc.) would be "religion" to him. It seems like a very Buddhist concept. I don't really know a terrible lot about Buddhim and its different sects, granted, and Shiki's shown us parts of traditional Buddhism are certainly entity-conscious, but. Thread Reply to this Thread from start Parent Thread Hide 10 comments Show 10 comments no subject mgnsh83 2015-01-22 02:34 am (UTC)(link) I'm looking forward to those conversations, then! I think I skipped the episode previews, so I missed out on that. Oh well, just one more reason to rewatch them, then.
Ah yes, I think I understand what you're saying. I don't know the nitty-gritty on the differences between Judeo-Christian interpretations of God and Buddhist philosophy's/religion's understanding of it (really should look into Buddhism more), but to some people, the two are inter-changable to one degree or another. Maybe it's another case of my grossly misunderstanding there, but I got the impression from what I've seen so far that the exact *what* (entity vs. philosophical idea/code for conduct) didn't matter to Seishin so much as the ideals behind it (because maybe it could also be argued that the concept of God/belief is an ideal in and of itself, despite differences in what that means to different cultures/people; add to that that some people do indeed treat their politics and personal feelings in a similar way to religious beliefs) and his feeling that those ideals weren't meshing with what he was seeing in the world around him. For some people, that's disappointing and depending on the severity of the realization and exact circumstances, heartbreaking. But, I suppose I'm also adding more ramble and repeating myself a bit.
Either way, I saw in Seishin the embodiment of something I once heard that went something like, "There's no more bitter a pessimist than an optimist who's seen their dreams shatter." Thread Reply to this Thread from start Parent Thread Hide 9 comments Show 9 comments 8D (Anonymous) 2015-01-22 01:00 pm (UTC)(link) 8D why hello there! Fellow Seishin fan here. He's my favorite puzzle pieces, so to say. While no one in Shiki is shallow, we're presented with even deeper stuffs (in my opinion) regarding him, which really, really interest me. He's a well rounded, complicated character which makes him very relateable and human, and I love that.
Still not very sure whether his development is actually for the better or worse (since if you ask me, I believe everyone in Shiki is going downwards till the end) but I think it suffices to say that, while his development and turning would probably and potentially be bad for his surroundings (define bad?), it would be the best for him.
It's also in my opinion that in the end Seishin and Sunako would clash. That they'd realize that they can no longer find what they want in the other/their companionship. Seishin strikes me as a very detached, follow-no-one person who deep down has only himself as the center of his universe and that he's his own God. There's no one else in his 'universe' but him. I used to say he was a natural follower, but now I think it's only in the surface only. Even if he does that, it's in a very detached way he probably doesn't feel much difference between actually following them/having them as his companion or not, which is creepy in an interesting way. For now he's probably really alone, but when he's blossomed into a mature butterfly he'd probably think to ditch her.
I think Shiki is a story about death -- the death of everything, including God, the 'God' that Seishin refers to a lot in his novel. The 'God' that's Sotoba and its system and faith. God comes in a lot of idea in this work, and I think he's torn between two sides here-- on one side he's following the 'God' he cannot exactly believe in, but love nonetheless just for the fact that he was born in Sotoba, tied to its traditions and all. It's the same as someone who loves their country or their parents. On one side he has his own (somewhat vague, for now) ideal of what 'God' is supposed to be, but he has nothing to validate it because, well, who can? The best he can do for now is finding like-minded people (the person who built the church, perhaps also Sunako) so he could feel that he can validate his true ideal, which means he himself can be validated. But I think once he has discovered a complete form of his ideals (his God, which means his own self) and knows how to realize/validate it, he'd no longer feel the need to find solace in either the church or Sunako (back to the paragraph prior to this).
He doesn't exactly believe in the 'God' that Sotoba has tried to instill in him, but he's still a follower of the system because, people would naturally feel validated as a follower of the existing system, right? Sotoba existing means he can feel somehow validated, even if his heart isn't exactly there. So, perhaps 'love' is not the only case here (there's also his obligation to help making things more difficult). Shiki is also a story of his separation from the system -- from God, from Sotoba. It's marked by several happenings: his suicide attempt, the moving of the Kirishikis to the village and the turning of the villagers into Shikis, his meeting Sunako and the discovery of some of his self, his clashing with Toshio, his turning into Jinrou, and finally the complete destruction of Sotoba. There's probably more but the last two are especially important, probably last three. If these things didn't happen I cannot figure Seishin would have had the guts to actively separate himself from the system, because as mentioned, he still has this bond to the system which he himself helps nurture out of many reasons. The last two especially mark the point where he's fully separated himself/realized that he's been separated from the system, perhaps since day one, hence what he says to Sunako in the burning church.
I find it interesting that to him, faith should be something that comes directly from one's own heart and not from existing traditions. I have personally seen many instances of the latter, and while being a part of the system/tradition would feel reassuring to many people, it'd indeed lose its meaning if your own heart doesn't actually follow it. Doing something that doesn't directly come from one's own heart sounds like something Seishin would really despise. I imagine he'd probably despise himself because he's basically doing the same.
I've always imagined that while Seishin on one side loves -- truly loves -- the village, on one side he's always thought of himself as separate. Probably mix of his feeling unable to be validated by the village for being different, but then he also wishes to separate himself from the system for being different. He's torn between two sides, but at times it also seems to me that he's torn between two sides of himself as represented by his novel. One reason as to why he's come to hate the village may also be his inability to break his bond to the village.
I at some points refer to Seishin as 'the ghost and the walking corpse', taking inspiration from his novel: the walking corpse is represented by the younger brother who's no more than his facade or persona of 'true follower of the system'; the ghost as represented by the older brother is his real self who lacks any body because it has yet to be realized/validated (and because it's been repressed, also because its complete form is yet to be discovered). So the suicide attempt = the murder of the younger brother by the older brother marks his true disengagement from and destruction of his persona, and him beginning to release his own self and actually develop it. It's also interesting to note that he actually began to write thanks to his suicide attempt. Thread Reply to this Thread from start Parent Thread Hide 8 comments Show 8 comments Re: 8D mgnsh83 2015-01-22 09:51 pm (UTC)(link) Hiya, yes, I do agree with a lot of your points, especially that while part of Seishin does love the village because he was born and raised there and it's a big part of all he's known, he dislikes it too, and that he feels faith is something that comes from a person and not their traditions (the novel really backs that up, as well as his being a heartfelt person, for good or for ill).
I think too that he's selfish, deep down, but it's not always in a way that wants to hurt people, though this may change after he changed. His Cain and Abel story was basically an allegory to his two sides, yeah, and I liked the way it was woven into the larger narrative.
I imagine that's why he struggled with writing it--it was the truth, an uncomfortable truth, and it took a huge catalyst for him to face it and begin living his truth. I can understand that, being a writer myself. Sometimes, the themes you write about are there for a reason you didn't anticipate yourself. You don't always want to write. You don't want to lay a part of yourself out there, but it's a searing feeling inside that needs to be expressed because the thoughts need to get out somehow. Yet at the same time, when someone pays attention and wants to talk about it, it's also like they want to discuss a private part of you. That's why I can understand why he didn't like it when Toshio put his essay in public view.
Sunako, well...I have mixed feelings about her. I don't hate her as a character, but I'm not a huge fan, either. I got the strong impression while watching the anime and manga that she's almost emotionally manipulative to a degree. While she helps Seishin put a voice to and organize his true thoughts, it also felt to me like she was also subtly guiding him to think the way she wanted him to. The novel might prove me wrong, though. I can see him abandoning her once he gets used to being a jinrou, but on the other hand, I can also see him hanging around long enough to see the fulfillment of where despair and being abandoned by God/an ideal may lead them.
I want to see Seishin as a somehow-of-a villain as well.
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